Michigan Votes

2005 House Bill 4505 (Repeal motorcycle helmet mandate )

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  • Introduced by Rep. Tom Casperson on March 16, 2005, to repeal the mandatory motorcycle helmet requirement for persons at least 21 years old who have held a motorcycle license for two years and successfully completed a motorcycle safety course. See also 2003 House Bill 4325 and 2003 Senate Bill 321.
    • Referred to the House Transportation Committee on March 16, 2005.

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Comments

Introduced by Rep. Tom Casperson on March 16, 2005. New Comment

1) Don't repeal, amend [by Robofsemi on July 24, 2008]
They shoudl just amend the law so that if you want to ride helmetless you have to carry a certain additional amount of insurance. Yo apply, show your proof of additional insurance and get a sticker you can afix to your bike so that the police can see it and know not to pull you over.

I would have no problem repealing this law and the seat belt law for adults if the results didn't affect my insurance costs.
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2) House Bill 4505 [by mbautel on May 9, 2008]
I feel that motorcycle helmets should be required just as safety belts are required to be worn by other vehicle operators. It helps to protect the driver and passengers, helps to reduce medical and insurance costs as well.
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3) do you PAY my [by Anonymous Citizen on May 9, 2008]
medical bills?

do you PAY my insurance?

what concern is it of yours????

or do you just enjoy delving into other people's lives????

by the way, it's not the state's concern either.


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4) actually... [by Anonymous Citizen on May 10, 2008]
currently, no - i don't pay your medical bills, or your insurance. however, when you crash your bike and don't actually become the organ donor that unhelmeted motorcyclists are renown for, but instead suffer traumatic head injuries leaving you in a permanent vegetative state, i will be paying your medical bills, your insurance, your families governmental support, etc... all tax payers will be.
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5) Motorcyclist [by Anonymous Citizen on June 4, 2008]
The reason taxpayers would be affected is because the State of Michigan has an unlimited liability for the injured/vegetative state patients. Michigan is one of the only states that still possess this law as many have moved to enforce certain medical caps limiting how much is spent on patients.

I ride motorcycles and prefer to ride without a helmet. Yes, I understand the risks and it's something that I am passionate about. I am an organ donor so if I do die on the road, I will assist/safe the lives of others. My family also knows my intentions if I were to be injured..pull the plug. I will not be a burden on others and waste the money of my loved ones. I also have a life insurance policy which could be used to pay my medical bills. Needless to say, I have taken the necessary steps to prevent any additional spending by the State of Michigan, donated my organs to help others and established a life insurance policy to assist with any medical expenses. Why can't I make a choice on my life and ride without a helmet?

I know people always argue that safety belts should not be enforced then. Please go look at the statistics of automobile crashes and the survival rate and then look at the statistics of motorcycle crashes. You cannot even compare the two.

I also have colleagues that are doctors and nurses. Even they tell me that the cases that come in are better off not wearing a helmet. Their lives are altered to the point of no return if they even survive.

I am not hurting anyone else by not wearing a helmet. Please let me make my choice and ride how I want to. The majority of the people enforcing this law have never been on two wheels. Please let the riders decide.
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6) they can't let the [by Anonymous Citizen on June 5, 2008]
rider's decide..

it's against the LIBERAL CODE.

no one decides ANYTHING in the liberal code, except to decide to elect another democrat.
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7) why will you have to [by Anonymous Citizen on May 10, 2008]
pay my bills?

who gave the government the responsibility to pay my bills?

or did they take it on themselves as a PUBLIC SERVICE?

what exactly makes it the government's job to pay my bills? where is that in the constitution?


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8) it's just the system... [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
it's just the way the system is... when people can't pay their medical bills, the hospitals have to eat those charges, but increase the amount they charge other people. In turn, insurance premiums go up, as do medicaid and medicare reimbursements. In order for these to go up, tax payers have to dish out more. It's a cycle - and it shouldn't be that difficult to understand that everyone's actions effect one another and if you think that our government and health care system should change, well join the club, but that's a much larger issue and if they haven't been able to tackle this one for the sake of the uninsured, I highly doubt they will do it for a couple of yahoos wanting to risk their life. How utterly egotistical... you should really get out more.
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9) by the way, g-ma. [by uber-liberal on May 10, 2008]
my victimization was a 'WAKE UP CALL' to me, i woke me up to the fact that i was un-armed, (by choice because of liberal doctrine) and un-prepared, (by choice, because of liberal doctrine).

once i recovered sufficiently, (i STILL haven't recovered fully), i remedied BOTH situations. i exercised my second amendment right and bought myself several guns. i've since discovered that i enjoy shooting, hunting, and competing with firearms.

next, i exercised my brain and got some real education about self defense, and not being victimized. part of that education said that we should keep all the victimizers locked up for their entire sentence, as they will only VICTIMIZE SOMEONE ELSE if we let them go early.

i don't know why you wish every inmate to be released as soon as possible, but the rest of us don't.

as you haven't properly explained that, i take it you don't have a reason other than your loved one was incarcerated.
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10) what is the point of freedom if you dead [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
all i can say is
WOW! what is the point of freedom if your killed in a crash and cant use it and i have to do a speech over motorcycle crashes and you sould be lucky to still be alive look online for some stats
and i pray to god you will change your mind and wear a helmet




.
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11) all for [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
all for who wrote the next one
my friend was killed with no helmet and that more that enough to make put on a helmet
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12) Helmet [by Anonymous Citizen on July 6, 2008]
Your friend would have probably died WITH a helmet, or at least been a quadriplegic after the added 4 pound weight of an approved helmet broke his neck.
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13) You are sooo right [by Anonymous Citizen on July 29, 2008]
After I got rear ended by a minivan and slamed my head into the ground I am sure glad I didn't have that 4lb (in reality ony 1) brick on my head to keep me from becoming paralized...

OH WAIT! I did have my helmet on, I did survive being rear ended at 45 MPH while I was still and guess what, no sore neck, head injury and best of all I'm alive.

Helmets may not save all lives but reduce the chances of fatality.


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14) my friend was killed [by Anonymous Citizen on May 7, 2008]
by a negligent police officer.

should we ban those too?

that's enough for me.

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15) I Know A guy [by Anonymous Citizen on May 7, 2008]
who died falling down stairs...No more of them dangerous stairs for me.
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16) what is teh point of freedom if you dead [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
all i can say is
WOW! what is the point of freedom if your killed in a crash and cant use it and i have to do a speech over motorcycle crashes and you sould be lucky to still be alive look online for some stats
and i pray to god you will change your mind and wear a helmet




.
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17) what's the point of [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
living if you are not free to think for yourself?
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18) Fry Your Brain [by MI Fisherman on April 16, 2008]
But don't expect me to pay increased health care costs because you are on life support. It just makes common sense to use a helmet. Think about those who care about you.
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19) Helmet [by Anonymous Citizen on July 6, 2008]
Without a helmet he will probably be dead. WITH a helmet, a quadriplegic after the added 4 pound weight of an approved helmet broke his neck. Then you can take care of him!
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20) no one has ASKED you [by Anonymous Citizen on April 16, 2008]
to pay more for my healthcare.

the state has taken that on all by itself.

it's not the state's JOB to do it, but they took it upon themselves anyway.

all i'm asking for is the right to choose for myself what's good for me.

i don't need YOUR input. i'm perfectly capable of deciding on my own, and i'm perfectly willing to live with the responsibility for my decision.


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21) Good site [by Anonymous Citizen on March 27, 2008]
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?

Jane.
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22) Good site [by Anonymous Citizen on March 27, 2008]
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?

Jane.
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23) Good site [by Anonymous Citizen on March 27, 2008]
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?

Jane.
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24) Good site [by Anonymous Citizen on March 26, 2008]
Sorry, but what is mariburjeka?

Jane.
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25) Good site [by Anonymous Citizen on March 26, 2008]
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?

Jane.
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26) Re-call Jenny [by Anonymous Citizen on October 20, 2007]
Before its to late.......
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27) To everyone [by Anonymous Citizen on December 13, 2007]
Dear Friends:

Like many of you, I've been keeping a close watch, once again on Lansing and the service tax mess, the options and the people in Lansing working the deal. Keep in mind that throughout the entire sad debate, the Democrats in charge had many an opportunity to make Michigan competitive and retain jobs. They didn't and we will continue to pay a severe price for their mistakes.

At the start of this year, the Governor proposed massive hikes in state spending. While the professional politicians spun the mainstream media that by reducing her ill-advised increases they were reducing the size of government, exactly the opposite was happening. Zero net cuts in Lansing and more continual increases in state spending ('02/'03 - $38.9B, '03/'04 - $38.5B, '04/'05 - $39.2B, '05/06 - $40.2B , '06/'07 - $41.7B, '07/'08 - $42.7B), resulting in a fat tax hike, including a personal income tax increase and now a major increase in business taxes too. The Democrats were even successful in getting a few misguided Republicans to go along with them on the hike in state spending and increased taxes, and so it became law.

As our single-state recession drags along, made worse by Lansing's mistakes, Michigan's families continue to suffer. As their home values go down, average salaries for state employees go up. As private sector jobs go away, public sector jobs get more secure. This is wrong!

Looking at this mess, it's plain and simple - our state government is broken. Things are so bad, the normal political clichés like "change" or "reform" don't mean anything any more. Michigan's government needs an overhaul.

One solution I think we need to seriously consider is a part-time legislature, coupled with real lobbying and ethical changes. Now this is truly out-of-the-box, but making government focus on problems, solving them and going home to live with the results would stand in stark contrast to our current reality of decision, change, decision, change, that's driving everyone crazy…and driving our jobs away, too! The status quo special interests will moan and try to come up with excuses as to why it won't work but it clearly does elsewhere. In fact, only 11 states have full-time legislatures. Michigan needs to park the current model at the curb and go pick up a new, proven performer.

But this needs to be just a start.

What ideas do you think will work? Let me know. Let's get all the good ideas we can, 'cause we can't count on them coming out of Lansing.

Until 2008,


Dick

PS: This will be my last message of 2007, so I would like to reflect for a moment on this Holiday Season. The most important reflection being that despite all of the challenges we face here in Michigan, this is still a season of thankfulness, of giving and of hope. Hope is not lost in our world today and there is no reason to give up hope here in Michigan.

To all our Christian friends, we wish you a Merry Christmas. To all our Jewish friends, we wish you a Happy Hanukkah. To all our Muslim friends, we wish you a successful Eid Al-Adha (The Festival honoring Abraham's sacrifice to Allah.) To all our friends that celebrate this season in different ways, we wish you the time for reflection. Betsy and I wish you and all your loved ones peace and prosperity in the New Year.
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28) Jeeny has finally done something [by Anonymous Citizen on December 9, 2007]
She has signed a bill repealing the law that requires us to sign our vehicle registration papers.
WOW, this is what she must have meant when she said we would be "blown away"! Way to go jenny.

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29) Be Careful [by Anonymous Citizen on December 10, 2007]
it will probably be replaced by some other control freak nonsense.
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30) repeal helmet law [by jeffreyskm on October 15, 2007]
I am a licensed motorcycle rider and believe it's my choice whether or not to wear a helmet. However, I also do not want my insurance payments to cover those riders who suffer severe injuries by chosing not to wear a helmet. I agree that if you choose not to wear a helmet, you should pay a higher insurance premium and be required to become an organ donor, as that is the usual outcome for helmetless riders anyway.
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31) Dan [by Anonymous Citizen on March 26, 2008]
This would be a good resalution to repealing the helmet law. Bring it up more public. Thank's.
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32) Get your facts straight [by Anonymous Citizen on October 16, 2007]
Tell me what state that has raised their insurance rates after repealing their helmet law. Quit listening to all the insurance propaganda...
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33) Helmet [by Anonymous Citizen on June 4, 2008]
Forget the insurance for a minute. Where has our right's gone? I ride a Intruder 1500 and always wear my helmet and feel I should. BUT I do not need Lansing to demand I wear a helmet. It should be a persons right to wear one or not to wear one. People have head injuries in cars, trucks, tractors, bicycles, etc., etc., should they be required to wear helmets also?
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34) Here's a little fun fact [by Anonymous Citizen on October 9, 2007]
Webster's dictionary defines the word "jenny" as a female jackass.

How right they are!
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35) Remove the mole [by Anonymous Citizen on October 5, 2007]

RECALL GRANHOLM !
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36) ok all you freedom loving bikers... [by suppressed american on September 11, 2007]
the speaker of the house has said that the "HELMET" bill is to be voted on this month. contact your reps and HAMMER them. this is a FREEDOM OF CHOICE ISSUE. it is a chance to retrive one of the things that our wonderful michiganistan government took away for us thirty years ago


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37) TAX HIKE [by Anonymous Citizen on October 4, 2007]

67 Republicans voted NO
6 Republicans voted YES

69 Democrats voted YES
6 Democrats voted NO

TOLD YOU SO.... RECALL ANYONE?????
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38) tax guy [by Anonymous Citizen on October 4, 2007]
Why do you insist on posting to a bill from 2005? At least find the 2007 version so people won't know what an idiot you are.
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39) I suppose... [by Anonymous Citizen on October 5, 2007]

...you are FOR a tax hike. Perhaps you need government assistance? Maybe because the all-knowing Jenny f'd up your situation?
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40) Jenny..read this [by Anonymous Citizen on September 13, 2007]
A Japanese doctor says, "Medicine in my country is so advanced that we can take a kidney out of one man, put it in another, and have him out looking for work in six weeks."

A German doctor says, "That is nothing. We can take a lung out of one person, put it in another, and have him out looking for work in four weeks."

A British doctor says, "In my country medicine is so advanced that we can take half a heart out of one person, put it in another, and have both of them out looking for work in two weeks."

The Canadian doctor, not to be outdone, interjected, "You guys are way behind. We took a woman with no brains, sent her to Michigan where she became Governor, and now half the state is out looking for work."
------
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41) jenny said in five years i'll be blown [by suppressed american on September 1, 2007]
away. well, i'm blown away alright. at how much farther michiganistan has fallen into the abyss.

yep, she sucked all you DUMB people in. typical of a LAWYER. geez, what a bunch of LOSERS.

she met with AAA on thursday and vetoed the bill on friday. i wonder how much $$$$$$ she was payed to veto the bill ??????

motorcycle deaths and injuries in this sorry state are not going to drop until there is more EDUCATION and AWARNESS. that helmet thing...it's a control issue.

AFTER ALL, NO HELMET EVER PREVENTED A ACCIDENT !!!
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42) Michigan & jenny [by Anonymous Citizen on September 4, 2007]
Now this loser has ruined our football team....
Re-call!!!!!!
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43) Nah, Can't blame the queen for this one [by Anonymous Citizen on September 5, 2007]
liberalism and cockyness killed this team.
To many days of being indoctrinated at that blue and puke place.
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44) jenny {equals} [by Anonymous Citizen on September 4, 2007]
Loser
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45) LoL [by Anonymous Citizen on August 28, 2007]
All hail Queen Jenny!!
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46) Another Excuse [by JoeRider on July 24, 2007]
Or at least another reason the Canadian will use to veto the current helmet repeal. Stats released yesterday show that while car traffic deaths have dropped, motorcycle deaths have increased. The article I read of course had someone calling for more states to have helmet laws.
Just one more excuse, all it is.
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47) How many more years can Michigan survive? [by Anonymous Citizen on August 26, 2007]
Re-Call Jenny!
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48) This just in.... [by Anonymous Citizen on August 26, 2007]
Michigan leads the nation in un-employment. Good job, Jenny! Go Back to Canada!
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49) JENNY [by Anonymous Citizen on August 12, 2007]
Can we have a re-call?? What a loser. Never vote for a woman. Never vote for a Canadian. Never vote for a liberal. Never vote for anyone who has moles all over their face....because if you do she will end up ruining your State.
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50) Disappointed with past elections [by Anonymous Citizen on October 9, 2007]

I am totally disappointed and embarrassed by the fact that Jennifer got re-elected. But she did not get re-elected in 2006, she got re-elected on November 2nd, 2004! Kerry may not have been the best choice but he was better than Bush. The Democratic tsunami that was the 2006 election would not have happened if Kerry were president. The Democratic takeover in the House and Senate in Washington was America giving Bush the middle finger. Furthermore 38 states had gubernatorial elections last year. 12 states that had Republican governors now have Democrats. Not one state went the other way, NOT ONE! There is no way in hell that a governor with as bad of a track record as Jennifer could ever get re-elected under any normal circumstances. But when you have a dumbass for a president with maybe a 30% approval rating the unthinkable can and DID happen.

It's very simple. The only reason Bush was re-elected was the fear of terrorism. The only reason Jennifer was re-elected was fear of Bush! And the worst thing is we are ALL suffering for it! Hopefully the next elections will be better.
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51) yes indeed !! after our legislature PASSED this... [by suppressed american on August 12, 2007]
bill, which is the WILL OF THE PEOPLE, she vetoed it.

you must understand that the DEMOCRATS don't like it that you would have one small freedom back. these people like having control over you. they don't think that you as an ADULT can make decisions for your self.

there are more motorcycle deaths this year than in 2005. ALL WITH A HELMET LAW. our surronding states without a helmet law have the same or less than in 2005.

the myth that helmets save lives is just that, A MYTH !!! the only thing that will cut down on motorcycle deaths is EDUCATION. NOT LEGISLATION.

the sooner this is realized, the sooner the death rate will drop.

the other thing is for people to get thier head out of thier ass and pay attention to driving and less on tunning the radio or talkng on the cell phone. just to name a couple.
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52) Michigan voters... [by Anonymous Citizen on August 7, 2007]
You voted for a Liberal female from Canada. We got Higher taxes, Higher un-employment and no leadership!!
What were we {you} thinking?

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53) Don't Forget [by Anonymous Citizen on August 7, 2007]
she was "educated" at berkley. This turns most socialists into raving communists.
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54) HB???? [by Anonymous Citizen on August 7, 2007]
Why are you people still posting to a proposed bill from 2005???
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55) Michigan is at the top of the list in forclosures [by Anonymous Citizen on August 1, 2007]
WAY TO GO JENNY!!!! Oh, I forgot, it's Englers fault.
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56) helmet law [by Anonymous Citizen on July 5, 2007]
well its another start to another bill that the foreigner in lansing will veto.

make it five years with an endorsement and age 25! and drop that safety course. thats just another way for the government to make some quick money.
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57) NEW BILL !!! [by Anonymous Citizen on June 10, 2007]
HB 4749 is this sessions helmet-choice bill
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58) jenny [by Anonymous Citizen on June 21, 2007]
jenny, go home!
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59) Who in the hell... [by Anonymous Citizen on June 21, 2007]
voted for jenny? Anyone that did should have their voter registration card revoked.
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60) every democrat who [by Anonymous Citizen on June 21, 2007]
believed that she would continue the "take from the rich and give to the poor" philosophy that jennie has been spouting.
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61) It Wasn't Me! [by Anonymous Citizen on June 21, 2007]
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62) angry american [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]
As soon as the state figures out how to make a buck on appealing the helmet law. It will. Until then, they will just tax the chap out of us on everything they can come up with.
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63) Splat!! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 26, 2007]
This goes well with the Sec of State's drive for organ donors early in the year. Less helmets equal more life saving organ donations. It sounds morbid and disrespectful, but it is the truth.
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64) You Libs/Socialists [by Anonymous Citizen on June 21, 2007]
are sick. It's posts like your "splat" that mkes the grown ups want to take back the country.
I guess once you can get your arms around killing babies in the womb or partially out then talking about folks on bikes donating organs is an easy leap.
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65) let's follow the liberal logic [by Anonymous Citizen on June 21, 2007]
1. killing is bad (that's why they are against the death penalty) unless they are doing it, (that's why they are PRO ABORTION, PRO LIFE SENTENCING OF INNOCENT INMATES, AND PRO SHOOT TO KILL LEGISLATION.)

2. murder is bad (unless you are a killer going on a spree in a 'GUN FREE ZONE'.)

3. ALL murderers are innocent if they are facing the death penalty, (but each and every one of them is guilty no matter what if the sentence is death by incarceration.)

4. there can never be enough taxes.

5. there can never be enough abortions.

6. there can never be too much gun control (unless it keeps one of them from owning a gun, or having a bodyguard who has a gun.)

7. no conservative thought in schools, period.


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66) When "splat" fails. [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]
What if the people who are not wearing helmets get in a severe accident but don't die? and what if their body is injured in such a way that they need an organ donation? and what if this happens a few times a week-or even a few times a day? the people waiting for a liver or kidney or what ever organ who have life threatening illnesses have to wait longer for the donated organ that could save their life because some idiot decided not to wear a helmet. yes i agree, more deaths equal more organs, but not everyone who gets in an accident will die.
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67) that STILL [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]
doesn't make it a STATE decision.

it's a PERSONAL decision.

the state has no interest in whether or not I die in an accident.
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68) so, why did florida's [by Anonymous Citizen on May 27, 2007]
highway death rate go DOWN?

why did all the other state's who abolished their helmet laws rates go DOWN?

because the motorcyclists DROVE MORE SAFELY, instead of being told (FALSELY) that a helmet is going to save their lives.

i say, if the state is going to mandate helmet use, it should assume ALL responsibility when helmets DON'T WORK AS ADVERTISED.

every death of a helmet wearing motorcyclist should be made the STATE'S FAULT. they said that a helmet would save the guys life, and it DIDN'T. the state should bear the burden for putting out that kind of lie.

they should ALSO work on MAKING THAT LIST OF APPROVED HELMETS, because if NO HELMET IS APPROVED, THEN WE DON'T HAVE TO WEAR ONE.


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69) Helmet Use [by Anonymous Citizen on June 1, 2007]
Nobody says that a helmet will save your life in a high speed accident, many bikers are killed by internal injuries and bleeding, the helmet is meant to protect your head from blunt force trauma it what may be a survivable accident. The death of an adult by severe head trauma caused by chosing to not wear a helmet isn't the real issue. I support your right to not wear a helmet, I jsut don't want to support you via social security and medicaid when you are a vegatable. I beleive that once you turn 18, If you drive a car without wearing a seatbelt or ride a motorcycle without a helmet that you sign a release of liability and release of claim against any local, state or federal agencies. If two medical professionals determine and certify that your disability could have been reduced or elimintated by the proper use of DOT approved helmet or seatbelts then your are not entitled to collect or apply for SSI, SSDI, Medicaid or any other tax supported system. And before your say what about sports injuries, everytime my son plays football I ahve to sign a waiver that says I wont sue the school, he knows that ramming helmet first is a prohibited activity and that he is never allowed on the field without a helmet. As a matter of fact our local school district has certified helmet fitters that are the only people allowed to fit the helmets.

If you want to assume the risk then great, if you wear a helmet that is DOT or SNELL approved and it fails to protect you, then sue the manufacturer. But if as a consenting adult over 18 chose to particpate in an activity that is dangourous without the aviliable safety equiptment then great, go for it, if its using a saw without safety glasses or riding a motorcycle without a helmet, boots, long pants and eye protection be a true rebel biker, sign the waiver and don't take "The Mans" money, free wheelchair, free van with ramp, maybe your Biker Bros will haul you around in a sidecar and push your wheelchair around, let your Bros have a poker run to pay your medical bill, build a ramp at your house and support your family, jsut don't ask me to do it with my tax money.
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70) that's fine...... [by Anonymous Citizen on June 3, 2007]
I just better start seeing EVERY boater wearing an approved life jacket at all times on the water too, from fishing and pontoon boats all the way up to luxery liners....Yeah, right...I can here all the whining and crying about that already. How about mandatory life jacket use in your own pool too, regardless of your age, or swimming ability ?? Just think of all the people saved from accidental drowning. Sounds fair to me.
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71) how about mandating that [by Anonymous Citizen on June 3, 2007]
everybody rip their pools out, as pools cause drowning.

and ban all boats on the water, as boats on the water cause drowning too.

how about banning all cars, as cars cause drunk driving.


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72) that's fine...... [by Anonymous Citizen on June 3, 2007]
I just better start seeing EVERY boater wearing an approved life jacket at all times on the water too, from fishing and pontoon boats all the way up to luxery liners....Yeah, right...I can here all the whining and crying about that already. How about mandatory life jacket use in your own pool too, regardless of your age, or swimming ability ?? Just think of all the people saved from accidental drowning. Sounds fair to me.
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73) that's fine...... [by Anonymous Citizen on June 3, 2007]
I just better start seeing EVERY boater wearing an approved life jacket at all times on the water too, from fishing and pontoon boats all the way up to luxery liners....Yeah, right...I can here all the whining and crying about that already. How about mandatory life jacket use in your own pool too, regardless of your age, or swimming ability ?? Just think of all the people saved from accidental drowning. Sounds fair to me.
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74) there are no medical [by Anonymous Citizen on June 1, 2007]
professionals who are willing to stake their career on an opinion that lack of seatbelt use or lack of helmet use was the single cause of a set of injuries.

simply because that would give them the power to say that seatbelt use, or helmet use MADE SOME INJURIES WORSE.

this would allow doctors to PLACE BLAME on the state for mandating seatbelt use and helmet use. it would also allow the state to place blame on the state for any deaths and injuries THEY PERCIEVE were caused SOLELY by seatbelt or helmet use.

the state would not release that kind of authority over it's money.
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75) I can't wait [by devildog2033 on May 25, 2007]
I can't wait for the helmet laws to be lifted. Then I get to see what the cry baby conservatives will whine about next.
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76) Whine? No - wine [by Anonymous Citizen on July 25, 2007]
Oh, that reminds me, how much tax is the bitch gonna tack on that? You want your brain scrambled in a bike accident, your choice. I just want them to stay out of my wallet. What-da-think that chance of that happening is? Idiot!
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77) it will be $100.00 to be able [by suppressed american on July 25, 2007]
to ride without a helmet..if you are a michiganistan resident. those that live in the five states around us without helmet laws don't have to pay anything. isn't this a wonderful state. you want to play...you have to PAY !!!
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78) a new way for michiganistan to make... [by suppressed american on May 19, 2007]
$$$$. put up toll boths at every border around michiganistan. make non residence travelers pay a fee [TAX] every time they cross over. can you imagine the money the state WON"T make. not to mention the drop in tourism. i just can't understand why those people wouldn't PAY to come to this sorry overtaxed, over regulated, fees for everything state.

don't they understand that these stupid michiganistanders need all the help they can get.

it's such a sorry, sorry, situation.
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79) Toll Booths Would Work [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]
Think of all the people that are stuck here that cross the border every week to get all the stuff that is taxed out the wazoo here.
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80) ok you freedom loving bikers, june 6, [by suppressed american on May 9, 2007]
state capital, lansing, michiganistan, 12 noon. FREEDOM RALLY. rain or shine be there with fire in your hearts. tell your friends to tell thier friends that there is power in numbers.

tell these younger riders that thier safety on the road this summer will depend on there partisapation. we need to let our legislators know that we are still mean busniess.

also drop a line to terry lynn land sec. of state thanking her for helping ABATE with the awareness signs along the x-ways. "MAY IS MOTORCYCLE AWARENESS MONTH, SHARE THE ROAD". hopefully this will keep more motorists aware there are motorcyclists using the road.

again, pass the word about the freedom rally. lets all show the powers thatbe we stand united about our precious freedoms.
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81) NEW BILL !!! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 16, 2007]
HB4749 is the new bill number for this sessions motorcycle helmet law MODIFICATION bill. This bill was just introduced and is not yet listed. However 4749 is the number and it should be listed soon.

As mentioned by Supressed American, Wednesday June 6th, Freedom rally. State Capitol 12:00 noon, BE THERE !!!
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82) thanks for the heads up. the new bill has.. [by suppressed american on May 18, 2007]
been introducted. it will be brought forth when time allows. should it pass the house and senate AGAIN !! jenny will probably veto it again. ONLY after she meets with AAA insurance big wigs AGAIN. i wonder how much they will pay her this year. its really a shame that when your government is so infatick about RULING your life. no wonder they got rid of sadam husain.

but we still got jenny !!!!!
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83) helmets and condoms [by Anonymous Citizen on May 2, 2007]
Why make me wear a helmet when we all know it s the pricks in michigan that are the threat, Condoms on all tax and spend politicians
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84) condoms save lives [by Anonymous Citizen on June 5, 2007]
jennifer only wants to save bikers lives ? then why is she pro abortion and late term abortions ? why is it that she wants to release prisoners early are all these things to save lives. The liberal thinking of a berkley education!!!
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85) Adoption: is it better than abortion? [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]
shes not pro abortion shes pro choice. shes not saying "o lets go kill all the babies about to come into this world. She thinks people should be entitled to making decisions. There are certain circumstances when abortion is understandable, like for a rape victom...am i wrong? Sure, theres always adoption, but would you really want your baby to be put through hell all their lives if they dont get adopted? going from foster home to group home, back to foster home.?? god only knows how those kids are treated, and there are thousands every year that are not adopted- thousands every year who are stuck sleeping on a cot in a room full of other kids, with nothing to call their own. No family, No home,..and no sense of significance...thousands who will never know what its like to have parents who love them, or families who get together every year at christmas just so they can spend time together...but yet, abortion is the worst thing in the world right?
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86) Adoption Is [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]
always better than abortion. I notice that all the people that are for child murder have already dodged the bullet.
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87) What In The World [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]

... do posts about abortion and adoption have to do with a bill that addresses the motorcycle helmet business?

The TROLL certainly has hijacked this thread, too. Best not to feed the TROLL.

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88) oh jeez... [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]
officer troll is back...

his tin foil hat must just be sparkin' and slippin' around on his greasy head.

his toy gun in his shaky hand, his plastic badge taped to his grease stained shirt.

he's here to enforce his version of what is proper and what isn't. a fresh graduate of the liberal school of law.
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89) The TROLL Buster [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]

never left.

It has become obvious that this site's resident TROLL is incorrigable in its determination to hijack every thread that starts here.

An occasional post is well in order, pointing out the TROLL's handiwork and reminding us that the only workable TROLL countermeasure is to not feed it.

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90) doesn't seem to be [by Anonymous Citizen on June 7, 2007]
working...

better luck next time.
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91) Wrong Again. [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]
"and there are thousands every year that are not adopted- thousands every year who are stuck sleeping on a cot in a room full of other kids"

New born babies have good decent families waiting in line to adopt them. The only ones that end up in foster care are the ones that are 7 or 8 or 12 years old when the state takes them from their birth parents. Some of these child snatchings are good because of bad parents and some are from over zealous state workers.
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92) if adoption is SO BAD [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]
why do you liberals want GAYS to be able to adopt?

make up your mind.
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93) in cases of rape [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]
what is the logic of waiting till the child is being born to abort it?

if you KNOW the child is from a rape, then abort it early. no one will deny you that right.

what is the excuse, medical or otherwise for late term, or 'partial birth' abortions?

come on, you seem to have all the OTHER ANSWERS.
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94) she cares about saving [by Anonymous Citizen on June 5, 2007]
lives just as much as she cares about public safety.

obviously public safety is her FIRST CONCERN, as she has released inmates and fired cops.


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95) helmets and condoms [by Anonymous Citizen on May 2, 2007]
Why make me wear a helmet when we all know it s the pricks in michigan that are the threat, Condoms on all tax and spend politicians
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96) Rolling Chunder [by Anonymous Citizen on May 2, 2007]
"Why make me wear a helmet when we all know it s the pricks in michigan that are the threat"

Because you are a tax-slave to the Lansing lefties. They're just trying to protect their "property." Now behave, and maybe they'll throw you an I-pod.
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97) "Whatever happened to personal responsability" [by Anonymous Citizen on April 20, 2007]
The nanny state libs/socialists took it away so that they can control all aspects of the sheeple's lives.
We need a poll test or we are doomed.
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98) ""loose cannon opponent"" [by Anonymous Citizen on April 19, 2007]
Are you nuts? I guess in libville that fiscal responsibility, lower taxes and less government intrusion and theft are bad things. If you like taxes then send in some extra, they'll take it. Heck, get all your socialist friends to send in a couple thousand each and see what happens.

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99) neocons [by Anonymous Citizen on April 19, 2007]
of the deVos loose cannon school hardly have demonstrated a proclivity for fiscal responsibility and limited government. they have a habit of spending like drunken sailors while getting rid of means to cover their bills. that is profligate reliance on credit, and a sure route to destruction in the future.

they also believe and push for increased central control, with all the inefficiencies that entails. at the same time, centralized control reduces ordinary folks' opportunities for meaningful participation and self-government.

the only way to go fiscally is pay-as-you-go, with everyone pitching in their share of taxes to cover the cost of government. the way to less government is to keep it and the opower of governance close to home in local communities.

Governor Granholm vs loose cannon deVos gave voters no good choice. so they went with a known quantity. probably smart in the final analysis. at least it was the cautious and conservative thing to do.
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100) Cautious and conservative 2 [by Anonymous Citizen on May 16, 2007]
Um, what ?!

How is re-electing a proven loser either cautious or conservative? Granholm has been the worst governor in this states history before she was re-elected. Now that she is in her last term and cannot be re-elected again, therefore having nothing to lose, do you honestly think the next four years are going to be better?! If so, I'd like to sell you my ocean front property in Kansas!
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101) I agree [by Anonymous Citizen on May 16, 2007]
Sticking with a proven loser is never the right thing to do. Look at the Tigers and the Lions. In 2003 the Tigers were the worst team in the league. In fact the were only 2 losses away from being the worst team of all time. So the Tigers organization had to make a tough choice in letting Allen Trammell go. And, unlike Granholm, Trammell was well liked. 2006 they hire jim Leyland and went to the World Series.

As for the Lions, Matt Millen has given them 5 losing seasons. So what do the Fords do, give Millen 5 more years. Year 1 of the new 5 year deal the Lions were what 3-13?! Do you think next season will be any better? Anyone want to guess which team has a better chance of winning a championship?

That being said if DeVos had been elected there is no guarentee that he would have turned Michigan around. However, we already know that Granholm can't. So why stick with a guarenteed loser. If DeVos had won we would've at least have chance to make things better.
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102) cautious and conservative? [by Anonymous Citizen on April 19, 2007]
to cast a vote for the candidate who lied to the public on numerous occasions, then fired police officers and released criminals?

i'm sorry, but you can't label that conservative under any light.

admit it, the liberals are the ones who got us here, and they are the ones who will KEEP us here.
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103) don't distort what i said ... [by Anonymous Citizen on April 19, 2007]
i said that that in the last election a vote for Granholm was not an especially good choice, but given the loose cannon behavior of neocons -- of which her opponent was one -- voters were conservative and cautious and went for a KNOWN QUANTITY. they were bound to get burned no matter what.
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104) i'd rather have a [by Anonymous Citizen on April 20, 2007]
"loose cannon" who believes in LOWERING TAXES, LESS GOVERNMENT, AND THE RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE than the 'known quantity' that DOESN'T.

by the way, what's so wrong with a "loose cannon". bill clinton was one, harry truman was one, abraham lincoln was one too.

all of their opponents have listed them as 'loose cannons'.

so you are telling me that the ENTIRE ELECTORATE of michigan thought that JENNIE was the best choice in the last election???

she certainly hasn't lived up to a SINGLE PROMISE, except to raise our taxes.

in five years, she hasn't "improved" one single thing.

she better get it in gear, she has less than three years left to do all these wonders.

considering that she seems to have NO CLUE how she's going to do it, and hasn't even started PLANNING for a clue, i DON'T THINK she's going to get it done.

if she even bothers to try...
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105) Come on!! [by Anonymous Citizen on August 26, 2007]
Vote third party!!
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106) Off topic, but... [by Anonymous Citizen on May 16, 2007]
...here is another example of one of many of Jennifer's lies. Teachers were behind Granholm because she was "for education." I don't think that DeVos, or anyone for that matter, was "against" education, but none-the-less the teachers backed Granholm. Now she plans to cut funding for schools. Good choice teachers! If you were naive enough to be duped by her B.S. I'm not sure that you should be teaching our kids in the first place.
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107) duped in to devos [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]
you say that the teachers are naive? wow, well take a look at all the republicans in office who will ONLY let her do what they want to do. shes tried to find other ways to fix Michigan's lovely deficit that low and behold, your REPUBLICAN governer previous to Granholm left for her to fix. For instance, what happened to the rainy day fund that just disappeared when he was in office? He did what ever he could to make the democrat that would proceed him look bad. He accomplished all that he wanted to and now Granholm is paying the price which is a shame because shes a great gov., and shes doing all she can to help michigan but, but she can only do so much...which sometimes feels like so little.
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108) Say What [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]
"look at all the republicans in office who will ONLY let her do what they want to do. shes tried to find other ways to fix Michigan's lovely deficit"

The Only Thing This Socialist Knows How To Do Is Raise Taxes, Fees, Licenses, Permits, Etc.....
We should be thankful that there are still a few left that will try to reel her in or this state would dry up and blow away even quicker.
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109) it FEELS like it's so little [by Anonymous Citizen on June 6, 2007]
because it IS.

the rainy day fund was INTACT when jennie took office. why isn't it there NOW???

now, what, exactly, has she done to make this state better??

i'd like a list of those accomplishments, if you don't mind.
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110) no helmets [by Anonymous Citizen on April 17, 2007]
get rid of helmets so we can have a better gene pool
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111) Loser [by Anonymous Citizen on April 17, 2007]
Jenny
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112) real use of helmets [by Anonymous Citizen on April 11, 2007]
might be to facilitate motorcycle accident clean-up. Keeps brain remnants in helmet container so that there is less mess to clean up after a deadly motorcyle accident.
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113) real use of helmets reply [by Anonymous Citizen on April 11, 2007]
If that's true, ALL motorists should be required to wear helmets.
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114) helmets for all motorists ?? are you.. [by suppressed american on April 11, 2007]
kinding ? these people that have been crying for continued helmet use for motorcyclists would bitch up a storm. can you inagine people haveing to wear a helmet in a car in july and august. with all that humidity and heat ??? there would be more wrecks from them passing out. but, it's ok for bikers to suffer from the same fatigue. after all they are only bikers (fathers, mothers brothers, sisters, etc.)

can you imagine the governor having to wear a helmet to a news conferance in her limosine. talk about a bad hair day !!!

and lastly you won't know which helmet is APPROVED because the michiganistan state police can't give you a list of APPROVED HELMETS because there isn't one. so how could you be safe from youself ?

it's to bad that the ones that want us to stay alive with helmets on, don't practice the same went driving thier cat or truck. after all there are way more head trama deaths and injurys in cars and trucks than motorcycles.

and YES, you have to pay for those people... for life !!!! to bad they didn't wear a helmet when they were driving. who wants to see brain splatter inside a car or truck ???
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115) unlike car accident victims [by Anonymous Citizen on April 11, 2007]
Motorcylists aren't as "contained" in their vehicle, thus the necessity of the brain remnant container-helmet
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116) Helmets [by JoeRider on April 2, 2007]
Hey suppressed, good to see you're still fighting the good fight...I read that link that somebody posted linking to the mi.gov site about what helmets are considered novelty and which will pass, read approved helmets. Basically in Michigan it seems as long as the helmet is DOT approved and has that little sticker then its an approved helmet for michigan...I still don't wanna get pulled over for that though, but I wear a full face helmet anyways...just got a new one in fact, clear outside shield with an internal flip down dark shield...its pretty cool
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117) hi joe, sounds like a nice helmet. but, you should.. [by suppressed american on April 2, 2007]
be able to wear it when YOU feel you should. NOT BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT SAY'S SO. it' is not the governments busniess telling you what to WEAR. the state police have enough to do without having to stop us to check our helmet.

BETTER YET GIVE US THE LIST OF APPROVED HELMETS SO WE CAN BE SAFER. THATS THIER JOB !!!!!!

you and i both know the millions of dollars this state is losing keeping this stupid law.

florida's tourism dollars skyrocked after they repealed thier law. THE DEATH RATE STAYED THE SAME. but they were smart enough to increase AWARENESS. michiganistan is still in the dark ages when it comes to allowing more FREEDOM to it's citizens.

WILL THE LAST PERSON OUT OF MICHIGANASTAN PLEASE TURN OUT THE LIGHTS AND LOCK THE DOOR....
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118) State Police [by Anonymous Citizen on May 16, 2007]
With the price of gas expected to reach $4 A GALLON this summer, to save money the state police will be forced have more cars sitting on the side of the freeway and less on the rode driving. This is part of the states budget plan. Therefore there will be less state police officers available to give so-called "illegal helmet" tickets. One would think that they would have more important things to concern themselves with anyway.

You were wrong about one thing however. Florida's death rate did not stay the same when they repealed their helmet law. IT WAS LOWERED!
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119) thats just what jenny wants, plus the person... [by suppressed american on March 28, 2007]
that commented jsut below you. it still is possiable. it's been going on for over thirty years. the person that commented just below you is a person that hasn't been effected buy suppression...YET. they are probably golfers, tennis anyone, joggers, etc.. they don't have the skills or the ba*** to ride a motorcyle. so therefore it isn't important to them.

these are the things that are changing in michiganistan. with the changing times and the way the people are more and more arrogant in this state it's all about THEM. in other words DOG EAT DOG.

have you heard anyone call the great state police on the carpet for not PROTECTING us by doing thier job. giving us a list of APPROVED helmets. HELL NO !!! IT DOESN"T EFFECT THEM>

this sorry state is along time comming back. to bad it used to be great...
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120) TO ALL YOU FREEDOM LOVEING BIKERS. JUNE 6.. [by Anonymous Citizen on March 27, 2007]
12 NOON, STATE CAPITAL, LANSING, MICHIGANISTAN. spread the word to all those concerned. also tell those folks from out of state that ride free. the bigger the turnout the bigger our voice is. lets show our DICTATOR MOMMY GOVERNOR that there is lot's of $$$ this sorry state is losing because of this b.s. law.

but i forget that michiganistan has millions of dollars in surplus that they don't need to worry about extra money comming in.

log onto abate of michigan.org for full information. see you at the captial...ride safe !!!
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121) there ARE no more [by Anonymous Citizen on March 27, 2007]
freedom loving bikers in this state.

we have had the love of freedom beaten out of us by incessant legislation against our freedoms.


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122) poor [by Anonymous Citizen on March 28, 2007]
babies ...
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123) POOR BABIES ???? rev. king fighting for FREEDOM was he a baby ?? [by suppressed american on March 28, 2007]
what part of FREEDOM DON'T you understand ???? are you 10 years old ??? why would anyone be so stupid as to question people fighting for thier rights ???

the problem now dats is that people DON"T check anything as far as GOVERNMENT is concerned. QUESTION AUTHORITY !!!!!!! DAILY !!! those that don't, will find out to late.

government unchecked ???? will be after YOUR check. ASK JENNY !!!
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124) i don't question [by Anonymous Citizen on March 29, 2007]
or criticize people who stand up and fight for their rights.

i have no use for whiners, though.

the motorcycle helmet legislation that people keep yapping about here is old news -- a 2005 bill -- that never bvecame law.

bikers should quit whining here about how put upon they are. that does no good. it's tiresome. it's just being a crybaby.

it's time to start communicating, like grownups, with people who can affect the outcome of your issue. that means contacting your legislators.
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125) I don't think you get it. [by Anonymous Citizen on March 29, 2007]
Whiners ??? Crybabies ?? The true people this bill would have affected, (bikers), are venting a lot of frustration here. We DID contact the right people, and we DO fight for our rights concerning this matter. If it is tiresome or boring to you, go find another bill to follow. In all reality, this bill was a done deal. It went through the house, and senate, and was PASSED, only to have our mommy Grand-mole veto it. And it IS NOT old news, because we are not going to give up. We've put up with a lot more crap than you, so get used to us being here.
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126) poor babies 2 [by Anonymous Citizen on March 29, 2007]
"The true people this bill would have affected, (bikers), are venting a lot of frustration here. "

by ceaselessly and ineffectively whining about a 2005 bill that didn't have enough support in the legislature to overturn the veto it received.

"And it IS NOT old news, because we are not going to give up. We've put up with a lot more crap than you, so get used to us being here."

2005-2006 legislative bills like this one are OLD NEWS no matter how you cut it. over and done with. time to move on and move ahead. we now are in a new session. get over your disappointment. go out and do something positive for your cause.

you have no idea how much "crap" I've put up with in my life. if the worst you've had to put up with is the inconvenience of being required to wear a helmet while riding your motorcycle, count yourself lucky. and i am very used to your "being here" whining endlessly about how put-upon you are. that's why i decided to tell you that behaving like a crybaby gets you nowhere.
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127) RE: Crybabies2 [by Anonymous Citizen on March 29, 2007]
I read the last few comments here, and thought I'd jump in with a question or two for you. If this is old news, old bill, etc...why are you here reading it ? Obviously these folks are passionate about how they feel about this. In all honesty, if they bother you that much, and you don't care , or don't ride, why do you spend any of your time here? Like it or not, this is the most read link on "Michigan Votes" site. That in itself should get some people's attention higher up in the food chain.
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128) excellent post! [by Anonymous Citizen on April 1, 2007]
I have not been on this site since the election and this is still, like you said, a very hot topic. A bill for this new 2007-08 session should be introduced soon. The only obsticle at this point is Granholm. I still cannot believe she actually got re-elected. How embarrasing!!!
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129) average person [by Anonymous Citizen on March 26, 2007]
I don't understand why you people who want to mandate helmet laws don't just advocate the banning of all motorcycles period. That would be a heck of a lot safer, don't you think? That would end all motorcycle related deaths. Insurance policies would plummet!
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130) Well........ [by Anonymous Citizen on March 27, 2007]
I will go along with that just as soon as they ban walking also. There are more pedestrian fatalities per year than there are motorcycle fatalities. Let's also stop the use of electricity.....it's just too dangerous...people are electricuted almost every day. With your take on things, you'd be happy if everyone lived in a nice, safe, little bubble.
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131) oh, sorry. iforgot. three weeks in fla. for.. [by suppressed american on March 20, 2007]
bike week. 2500 miles, and all with NO HELMET. lets see, fifteen years at bike week. last seven NOT WEARING HELMETS. I"M NOT DEAD. i'll bet ther are pro-helmet bumpers out ther that are pissed. no one should live without wearing a helmet. it goes against everything they think or believe. darn, i'm so sorry to disapoint you people.

it just goes to show you that you don't know as much as you think, and, i bet that pisses you off too !!

have a great michiganistan day...
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132) five days and no comment. unbelieveable. not.. [by suppressed american on March 25, 2007]
even from any bikers. are you giving up ??? are you letting jenny have her way at your expense of FREEDOM OF CHOICE.

millions of dollars are going to go away this summer. millions of dollars that michiganistan could use to balance the budget. all from riders from OUT OF STATE. HELLO.....FROM OUT OF STATE. that means it isn't money from anyone that lives here. IT IS CALLED ..TOURISM DOLLARS.

what does michiganistan depend on every year for $$$? sorry you all flunked the test. it's not things manufactured in state draining detroit. it is tourism .

i'm so sick of hearing jenny tell us that it's john englers fault...please, quit milking it. admit that the last four years you screwed up, and the next four years are going to be the same.

someone that doesn't understand busniess or how it works is our governor again. so what will be the next step ?

watch your property taxes, and now the taxes on hair cuts (buy your own clippers and scissors), gas, cigarettes, alcohol. when does it end?


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133) Helmet law [by Anonymous Citizen on March 25, 2007]
Based on the content of the exchange concerning this bill, the bill should pass. The helmets would obviously not be protecting anything.
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134) Gee.... [by Anonymous Citizen on March 27, 2007]
Isn't that a clever response. How long did you have to think before you came up with that one?
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135) NAZI TACTICS !!! the state police of this sorry state are now.. [by suppressed american on March 6, 2007]
going to stop motrocyclists to check thier helmets. seems they don't like the fact that some are wearing "NOVELTY HELMETS".

the problem started way back in 1969 when the state police were charged with keeping a list of "APPROVED" helmets. THEY NEVER DID !!! and still don't. so how are you supposed to know which is APPROVED and which is not.

the state police adopted the requirements by NTSHA. hey wait, NTSHA doesn't test or approve helmets. even the manufactures don't approve helmets. they just make them to specs set by the government.

so which is an approved helmet and how do i know unless it is tested ???? once it is tested, WHO IS GIONG TO WEAR IT ??? surely it is going to be damaged.

the fact that the state of michiganistan is hurting for money so bad that they are now going to start hassleing people that live and work here. it's not bad enough that we are taxed to death. now lets go after the bikers.

A HELMET IS A HELMET. plain and simple. if you morons with the little red bubble on your car are so concerned about OUR SAFETY, why don't you get off your ass and do what you were charged with in 1969. do your fricking job. GIVE US A LIST OF APPROVED HELMETS SO WE WON'T BE ILLEAGAL. GIVE US A LIST OF HELMETS THAT WILL SAVE US FROM HARM. AREN'T YOU SUPPOSED TO "SERVE AND PROTECT" ?

no wonder people are leaving this sorry state, and, no wonder no one wants to come here for vacation.

the attitude of the powers that be in lansing ought to get thier head out of thier ass and start making michiganistan a place that people want to come to. quit taxing everybody to death. quit making busniesses so hard to survive.

i never knew a country that could be taxed into prosperity !!!!


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136) A big, hot ...... [by Anonymous Citizen on March 7, 2007]
steamy load of crap, isn't it ? I had read this is one of her ways to generate a little revenue to make up for her numerous failures at everything else. Let's see.....now even Comerica is getting the hell out of here with everyone else who is lucky enough to have that option, so let's squeeze some more out of the poor saps that are stuck here. Oh yeah...and let's give all those poor, poor, auto workers an education at the taxpayer's expense too. Then they can take their new skill/trade, and move out of here with all the other lucky people...We should all go on welfare; with her stupid set-up, we can collect it till we go the grave.
Way to go Grand-hole.
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137) she had a "TOWN HALL METTING" on channel 8, grand rapids. [by suppressed american on March 7, 2007]
i missed it. dam. i wanted to listen to the same blah, blah. oh well, they will have hi-lights on the news in the a.m..

the state police have had thier driving time cut by 20%. now they sit in the medien with radar to catch speeders. hell, anybody with a c.b. can find out where they are. i do it every day. yes, i still have a c.b. and i haven't had a ticket in years.

why haven't the state police been held accountable for not doing thier job. they were supposed to keep a list of approved helmets. they dodged it. yet they can now stop us and check our helmets to see if they are "APPROVED".

do i smell something funny? how much longer is this state going to keep screwing up.

just think....today checking helmets, tomorrow, to see if you flossed !! never put it passed the state of michiganistan....
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138) Check out what this website... [by Anonymous Citizen on March 10, 2007]
This seems proof that MI is gaining steam in the fight AGAINST bikers. Jenny must have approved the money to spend for the MSP course to learn how to pull over and check out our helmets. Ooooo...we're such a threat to society. Wouldn't this time and money spent be better off to fight REAL crime ????????


www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123--154932--,00.html
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139) this is the problem, she is NOT my mommy. [by suppressed american on March 11, 2007]
at fifty seven years old i don't need her telling me whats good for me. i have done very well on my own with the decisions i've made. she wasn't around then so how could i have secceded?

we don't need government to make decisions for us. least of all someone that knpws NOTHING about motorcycling.

motorcycling uses less fuel, takes up less space on road ways, is easier to manuver, and with EDUCATION is a lot safer than a one TON car or a TWO AND A HALF TON TRUCK.

helmets are only good to 13 - 17 mph. if you don't believe me check out the stats. when was the last time you saw a biker going that speed ? after that speed it's the neck and spine that pay the price.

more over it is blunt trauma to the torso that KILLS. so now we have to waer BODY ARMOR ?

educating the public about sharing the road is the best solution. but, that would be to easy. it's not enough of a money maker. neither is keeping this optrusive law in place. our surounding states have NO helmet law. they bring in more motorcycle related revenue than michiganistan. they have fewer motorcycle deaths and injurys because they educate instead of ledgislate.

just putting a helmet on someone and sending then out on the road is just PLAIN WRONG. the four wheel public thinks that because that motorcyclist has a HELMet on they are invinceable. WRONG AGAIN .

all you doctors, nurses, and medical staff should be screaming for MORE EDUCATION !!!! not for a useless peice of plastic that is only good to 17 mph.

that feel good theory has already killed many people.

before you do your knee-jerk reaction, study the helmet section in the NTSHA website. you WILL have a change of heart.
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140) wow, eight days and no one has said.. [by suppressed american on March 20, 2007]
a thing. must be everone has finally got it. or they went to the NTHSA site and found out that the helmet is NOT the answer. to bad jenny didn't. she also didn't read the thousands of letters and cards that were sent to her. this again is a DICTATOR not a GOVERNOR.

not listening to the house and senate thru which the PEOPLE HAD SPOKEN.

we are about to start another riding season in michiganistan. i wonder how many bikers are going to be slaughtered by those car and truck drivers with thier HEAD IN THIER ASS. driving with thier cell phone stuck to thier heads. putting on thier make-up. READING THE PAPER OR BOOK.

but i guess it doesn't matter, we have a helmet law in michiganistan. and that my friends will save us all from harm.

anyone disagree ?????
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141) Well....... [by Anonymous Citizen on March 20, 2007]
For what it matters, I'm still here with ya. I check every day to see what dumb ass comments are made in defending the helmet law, or our gov. Grand-mole. Maybe no one is saying anything because they are too busy packing to leave, or are out looking for pop bottles and cans since they lost their job. I'm still in disbelief she passed up all that revenue by vetoing our bill, and now we are looking down the barrel of even more taxes to come our way. It's like living in a bad dream.
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142) to the bikers. [by Anonymous Citizen on March 20, 2007]
sorry, your freedoms have already been sacrificed at the altar of liberalism.


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143) 439 new laws introduced [by Anonymous Citizen on February 12, 2007]
80 of those have to do with taxes. most of those are TAX INCREASES.

NOT ONE of them promises to get michigan out of the hole jennie has us in.

give my regards to the rats too.
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144) Voice yourself...... [by Anonymous Citizen on February 10, 2007]
on click on detroit.com. They have a site set up right now to "ask the governor" your question or just state your beef. I read them all and I can happily say someone even brought up RECALL !! Jump in there with me suppressed !!!
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145) Sad State [by Anonymous Citizen on February 8, 2007]
It's a sad state when this legislation creates more interest than other critical items that impact far more people. And for the record - I think that any person that rides without a helmet is taking a risk that I'm not willing to pay for - in other words, you should pay the increase premiums and costs when you suffer your closed head injury in a fall.
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146) Reply - Sad Sack [by Anonymous Citizen on February 9, 2007]
No one is asking you to pay for a damn thing. My insurance rates are less in Colorado than they were in Michigan -- even when we still had the No-Fault garbage -- and Colorado has not had any helmet law since the '70's.

I am so sick and tired of dumbasses spouting this nonsense about how everyone will end up in the poor house because a guy might ride a motorcycle without some stupid piece of plastic on his head.

"...I'm not willing to pay for...." Wake up.

Jim
Arvada, CO
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147) Please Move To Michganistan [by Anonymous Citizen on February 9, 2007]
We need more like you here...Great Post
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148) Reply - Michiganstan [by Anonymous Citizen on February 9, 2007]
Why do you think I left?

Well...the weather for one. Broken pavement, for another. The chronic mess that is Detroit. But union-inspired, democRat non-think is right up there.

I was raised in and around Detroit. Graduated MCCC and WSU. Married on Mackinac Island. I've camped, fished and canoed throughout the state. Michigan will always be my home...but it's just f'n hopeless: The state continues to spiral downward. There a number of reasons for it, but how on Earth does anyone think that the Michigan will benefit from more taxes and less services? Hasn't anyone heard of New Jersey?

Actually, New Jersey could provide the basis for Detroit's new motto: "At least we're not Newark."

Little bit of an off-topic rant, there. Sorry.

Jim
Arvada, Co
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149) Michigan [by Anonymous Citizen on February 9, 2007]
is not your home if you don't live here.

If you left because you find the state "hopeless," those of us who decided to stay and try making things better say bye, bye, and don't let the door tag your behind on the way out. In other words, good riddance to quitters.

Sorry to be so blunt. But cut-and-run types aggravate me.
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150) tens of thousands of [by Anonymous Citizen on February 9, 2007]
people, and hundreds of businesses have left michigan.

is this state FULL of quitters?

this state QUIT caring about businesses a long time ago when it started taxing them out of existance.

this state QUIT caring about the common citizen a long time ago when it stopped trusting them to be able to live their own lives.

this state QUIT caring about the infrastructure that the people paid for a long time ago, that's why it QUIT maintaining it.


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151) No [by Anonymous Citizen on February 9, 2007]
The people who decided to stay in Michigan aren't the quitters. They're stand-uppers.

It's the cut-and-run tyopes who have left who are quitters. Not at all admirable.
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152) admirable? [by Anonymous Citizen on February 10, 2007]
the rats are usually the last to leave a sinking ship.

are they admirable?


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153) as usual [by Anonymous Citizen on February 11, 2007]
you have things absolutely bass-ackwards

Classically, it is understaood that rats rush to be first in line to desert a ship that finds itself in a hard way. That's why they are viewed as despicable. Of course, like most cut-and-runners, the rats like to think they are superior to those loyal, admirable and dignified folks who choose to stay with the ship and bring her home intact.
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154) once again. [by Anonymous Citizen on February 11, 2007]
YOU have it wrong.

rats leave last.

it takes a liberal to believe he knows what rats think.
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155) nope [by Anonymous Citizen on February 11, 2007]
rats cut and run first -- that's just the way it is

doesn't matter whether they are liberal rats or conservative rats or middle-of-the-road rats. rats is rats. they scoot and scatter when the going gets tough and then snipe at those who have the guts to hang in there.
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156) you sure [by Anonymous Citizen on February 11, 2007]
love your own opinion, don't you?

you are certainly never going to give up your point of view any time soon.

you just hang in there, let the legislature keep doing what it's doing, and just let the state go to hell around you while you ignore what is happening and keep right on thinking that you are right.

SMART people abandon ship.

RATS and idiots stay till after the water has washed over the decks.

the time to fix the problems of this state were long ago. you haven't even gotten around to admitting that there is a problem. you just stand there.

give my regards to the rats.
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157) you sure [by Anonymous Citizen on February 12, 2007]
love your own opinion, don't you?

especially when it's based in falsehood!
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158) okay, s.f.b. [by Anonymous Citizen on February 12, 2007]
what part is false?

come on, be specific.
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159) michigan orthodoxy [by Anonymous Citizen on February 11, 2007]
1. a michigander never admits to being wrong.

2. if you prove a michigander wrong, you will be asked, nay ordered, to leave michigan post haste.

3. those that leave michigan because they are fed up with the other michiganders are deemed quitters.

4. a true michigander picks and chooses the worst possible politician in every circumstance.

5. a true michigander will only pay attention to their elected representitives long enough to complain about them, not to vote them out.


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160) standard michigander [by Anonymous Citizen on February 9, 2007]
reply.

if you don't like it, leave.

that's one less taxpayer you just waved goodbye to.

one less person to help dig this state out of the pit the dumbocrats have placed it in over the years.

i have to admit that even the republicans aren't doing to hot of a job right about now, but at least they aren't coming up with new taxes and fees every few minutes. and they aren't talking about releasing prisoners all over the place either.
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161) As Usual [by Anonymous Citizen on February 9, 2007]
You are completely wrong.

I'm not one of those "if you don't like it, leave it" types. I'm of good stock that has the old real American ethic of "if you don't like it, stand and try to fix it."

Never had any use at all for quitters and cut-and-run types.
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162) stand and try to fix it. [by Anonymous Citizen on February 10, 2007]
where was the admirable vigilance that allowed this mess to get this far?

to 'stand and try to fix it' works fine, if the problem is caught early.

all you can do now is hope that a solution CAN be found, and IF one can be found, that the legislature and the government at large have the wisdom and the fortitude to actually carry that solution out.

maybe if the problem had been addressed EARLIER, it COULD have been fixed by the 'stay and try to fix it' crowd.
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163) i'm not critical of those [by Anonymous Citizen on February 10, 2007]
people who have left Michigan in search of what they believe to be better opportunity for themselves elsewhere. More power to them. I wish them success. That's the American way.

I am critical of the cut-and-runners who leave in a huff and then somehow find it necessary to snipe at the place they left of their own accord, blaming this or that or the other thing for the decision they made, trying to act as if they didn't make their own decision and choice, trying to create scapegoats to explain their own lack of integrity and fortitude, criticizing those who have enough backbone to stay and try to make better things happen. Cut-and-runners like that are undignified crybabies who have nothing constructive to offer or bring to the table. They are not the kind of people who built America. They are not the kind of people who will rejuvinate Michigan. They are not the kind of people I want for neighbors.


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164) but they are [by Anonymous Citizen on February 11, 2007]
exactly the kind of people YOU elect to SOLVE the problems of michigan.

jennie has a job, thousands in michigan don't.

jennie can't blame engler anymore, it's been four years of HER WATCH, and nothing has even been STARTED on the 'cleanup' you keep spouting on about.

show me where she has EVEN TRIED to do something.

T.I.S. is NOT the problem, the CRIMINALS are the problem. but as liberals, you are not allowed to admit that. jennie's "solution" to prison overcrowding is to release criminals.

this shows that she cares more about the criminal than she does you. or don't you see that?
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165) continued... [by Anonymous Citizen on February 11, 2007]
people not wearing helmets is NOT THE PROBLEM, JENNIE PICKING UP THE BILL FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANIES IS THE PROBLEM. jennie's solution to the motorcycle helmet problem is to disobey the will of the people, and veto this bill. it's also to make YOU believe that it's a good idea for the state to subsidize the medical profession for injuries the state didn't cause, and the insurance companies don't want to pay for.

she doesn't want to fix the ills of this state, she wants to CONTROL THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE in as many ways as possible.

she has already shown her contempt for the will of the people on this issue. if given enough time, she will show her contempt for the will of the people on MANY issues.

yet, the simple minded democrats keep right on electing her. believing her promises and hoping she doesn't cut THEIR programs.

i'd like to personally thank each and every democrat that voted for jennie TWICE for putting us in the situation we are in now.

p.s. sorry for splitting this thread up.
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166) A lot of us...... [by Anonymous Citizen on February 10, 2007]
tried to avoid this situation by not voting for Grand-mole the first time around. THEN, we tried to fix it by not voting for her again this last time. And for those who say stick around and try to fix this, or ride it out, well, that takes money and time, and a lot of us don't have either anymore.
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167) Reply - Michigan [by Anonymous Citizen on February 9, 2007]
Yeah, maybe. Maybe not.

Regardless, I do expect my remaining property interest in Michigan to terminate within the next couple of weeks. I will also likely be ending my contract status with my one Michigan client corporation.

Although family ties will, of course, continue, my business connection to the state appears to be coming to an end. If and when it does, I suppose that the "good riddance" will be mutual.

Jim
Arvada, CO



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168) Hearing [by Anonymous Citizen on February 9, 2007]
"good riddance" from a cut-and-runner hardly stands as condemnatioon of anything.
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169) Reply - Hearing [by Anonymous Citizen on February 12, 2007]
Read 'em again, dumbass. I "condemned" no one. That's all you, bubba.

I don't post on topics that are unique to Michigan or it's nepotistic bureaucracies (except for that stupid crap about naming a "bird of peace," which was just completely ridiculous).

I do post regarding issues that reflect national trends in stupidity, including the continued fantasty on which motorcycle helmet legislation has been built.

With that connection, another participant in this site asked me to move to "Michiganistan." I responded with a short paragraph or two about some of the reasons I left.

In reply, you have gone off on whole chain about cut-and-runners and rats leaving sinking ships?

Idiot.

Jim
Arvada, CO
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170) When the shoe (or label) fits [by Anonymous Citizen on February 12, 2007]
Mr. Cut-And-Runner who posts about Michigan issues from Colorado, then wear it. You decided to run away. Be a standup guy for a change -- take responsibility for your choice and quit carping about things that no longer are your business. Quit trying to interfere with the business of people who made a different choice by staying and trying make things better where they live.
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171) to:stand-up guy [by Anonymous Citizen on February 12, 2007]
ok, mr. stand-up guy.

when do the changes start happening?

when do YOU start to make changes?

all i see is more "same old-same old" from the politicians you and your 'stand-up' buddies re-elected.

i'm wondering why no one is 'standing-up' and demanding some results from their elected officials?

i'm wondering why no one 'stood-up' earlier, and demanded that these problems be solved while they were still 'manageable'?

all your talk about being a 'stand-up guy' is all well and good, except that you didn't 'stand-up' for anything either, did you?
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172) I am still here [by Anonymous Citizen on February 12, 2007]
and standing up for what I believe in.

what are you doing, whiner?
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173) okay, you're standing [by Anonymous Citizen on February 13, 2007]
up. whoopie...

while you're up, get me a beer.

if you 'stand up' and let the problems continue, then you are NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT THEM.

in other words, you ARE standing up, but you ARE NOT fixing the problem.

it seems to me that standing up is FAR more important to you than ACTUALLY FIXING THE PROBLEM.
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174) Darned Right I'm Standing ... [by Anonymous Citizen on February 13, 2007]
But I’m not merely standing around throwing a lot of rhetorical bombs at people. That’s your specialty.

I'm standing tall.

I do constructive things, like:

Go to work every day, to do productive tasks for my employer and support myself and my family. I help create, build and maintain what economy we have. No government or politician can do that. No rhetorical bomb thrower can do that.

Actively participate in local community affairs, politically and otherwise on a fairly broad front. I look for practical ways to address community issues. There are few dramatic breakthroughs. Patience, persistence and perseverance are necessary. The result is that my community remains a decent, safe and attractive place to live.

Actively support local politicians who behave responsibly and are willing to provide leadership that serves the community interests. I actively oppose non-leaders who slavishly toe party lines and allow themselves to be buffaloed by abusive and usually partisan loudmouths who do nothing but throw rhetorical bombs.

Actively engage my neighbors in a positive way, ginning up support for constructive ideas and activities that will maintain or improve the decent quality of life we enjoy in our community. I encourage active, open participation, not passive acceptance. I try to discourage destructive sniping by encouraging people to openly and actively engage and seek workable, positive solutions to issues that concern them.

Vote responsibly by becoming well informed and making my own, independent judgments regarding issues and candidates at all levels.

Regardless of election outcomes (whether “my” candidate or issue wins or not) engage my elected representatives and appointed or civil service officials at the state level. This helps maintain my voice in respect to a wide range of issues and state government activity that directly or indirectly affects my community and me.

Sometimes what gets doner is what I think is right, sometimes it isn't. But I keep on plugging away. Real commitment to ideas and ideals forms a basis for constructive action. Patience, persistence and perseverance are necessary. Clarity of vision doesn’t hurt.
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175) lets see now... [by Anonymous Citizen on February 13, 2007]
Actively participate in local community affairs, politically and otherwise on a fairly broad front.

[so far, so good. i'd like to hear your definition of 'fairly broad front'.]

I look for practical ways to address community issues.

[do you think that releasing prisoners is a practical way to address the issue of truth in sentencing?]

There are few dramatic breakthroughs. Patience, persistence and perseverance are necessary. The result is that my community remains a decent, safe and attractive place to live.

[some of the 'practical' responses to local problems sort of scare me. mandatory gun registration to respond to local increases in crime. random stops and searches of any vehicle on the road to respond to the drunk driver problem. mandating the taking of a relatively untested vaccine to respond to the cervical cancer problem. you seem to have no problem with these 'practical' responses.]

Actively support local politicians who behave responsibly and are willing to provide leadership that serves the community interests.

[i don't know what community you live in, but there are very few of those sorts of politicians, especially at the state level.]

I actively oppose non-leaders who slavishly toe party lines and allow themselves to be buffaloed by abusive and usually partisan loudmouths who do nothing but throw rhetorical bombs.

[now, which side of the partisan rhetoric do you fall on? there are only two. so far, more of the 'non-leaders' toe the left side of the rhetorical line, and i take it that you do too. as they seem to get a 'pass' from you."

Actively engage my neighbors in a positive way, ginning up support for constructive ideas and activities that will maintain or improve the decent quality of life we enjoy in our community.

[so, which of the above lists did you actively support?]

I encourage active, open participation, not passive acceptance.

[yet you passively accept that which comes from the legislature.]

I try to discourage destructive sniping by encouraging people to openly and actively engage and seek workable, positive solutions to issues that concern them.

[so releasing prisoners is a workable, positive solution to the issue of truth in sentencing? registering handguns (twice) is a workable, positive solution to crime? violating people's fourth amendment rights is a workable, positive solution to drinking and driving?]

Vote responsibly by becoming well informed and making my own, independent judgments regarding issues and candidates at all levels.

[so, did you independently vote for jennie, or for devos?]

Regardless of election outcomes (whether “my” candidate or issue wins or not) engage my elected representatives and appointed or civil service officials at the state level. This helps maintain my voice in respect to a wide range of issues and state government activity that directly or indirectly affects my community and me.

[so, i take it by that last statement, that your voice was in support of the increased taxes and decreased services we are seeing now?]

sir, my patience with being lied to by the most recent crop of politicians in lansing is at an end. i'm all for holding them responsible for positive changes, and for sending them packing when they don't.

it's only been a short while, and it's ALREADY time to send the lot of them packing.

you seem content to wait and see what other indignities they can subject the voting michigander to.
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176) More Trolling